Welcome to Theresa Stevens’s monthly Ask an Editor blog! Theresa has some more great tips this month on how to work with submission guidelines. Welcome, Theresa!
This month, we’re taking a question from the mailbag. This one was sent in by Pauline Allen.
Regarding POV, do publishers prefer two person POV or is singular deep POV acceptable?
Pauline, although most romance publishers want scenes in the hero’s viewpoint, the proportions of hero POV to heroine POV vary somewhat depending on your target market. So let’s use this question as an opportunity to take a closer look at submission guidelines.
When a publisher is concerned about the number of scenes from the hero’s viewpoint, the guidelines will reflect that. For example, let’s take a look at the guidelines for the Silhouette Desire line, found at:
http://www.eharlequin.com/articlepage.html?articleId=553&chapter=0
Buried in the paragraph about the ideal Desire hero, we see a clue about POV proportions. “The Desire hero often has fewer scenes from his point of view, but in many ways, he owns the story.” How do we interpret this? Let’s break it down.
- The hero has scenes from his POV.
- But the heroine has more POV scenes.
- This means we need more than 50% from the heroine’s POV, and fewer than 50% from the hero’s POV.
- This is important enough to rate mention in the guidelines.
- Scenes from the hero’s POV should be strong and purposeful. (He “owns the story.”) Don’t just switch because it might be time to switch.
So now you know, if you’re targeting Silhouette Desire, one possible interpretation of those guidelines. For contrast, let’s take a look at the submissions guidelines at Avon, found at:
http://www.avonromance.com/2010/03/19/avon-romance-submission-guideline/
You can search this page a long time and never find any tips about point of view. Does this mean they don’t care about the hero’s POV and you can safely skip it? Not necessarily. It just means they don’t feel so strongly about it that they’ll make it a formal guideline. But keep in mind that there are real people with preferences and opinions going through the submissions inbox. They’re highly trained and sensitive to market preferences. They know what they want, and they know what works for their readers, even if it’s not carved into the guidelines.
So how do you determine what their preferences might be? Check the line. If you’re targeting their historical line, scan some of the titles and look at the range of POVs. For example, Stephanie Laurens, a bestselling Avon author, sometimes has more than half the scenes in the hero’s POV. So we know that Avon historicals will at least consider a hero-heavy book. Will they consider a book with a single POV? Look through their current titles and recent backlist, and you’ll get some idea of that.
I think that your study of guidelines and current titles will show you that most romance publishers release books with scenes in both hero and heroine POVs, and few release books in single POVs. Why is that? Because it takes two (or more) to make a match. These stories aren’t about the adventures of one person, but about the formation of a bond between two people (or more – I keep adding that “or more” because of the popularity of polyamorous erotic romances). Readers don’t want to worry that a character is alone in the relationship. They want to see the bond develop from all sides.
But if the story has more to do with one character’s personal mission – some women’s romance or chick lit would fit this pattern – then a single POV is more appropriate. In that case, though, the story is probably not a romance even if it has romantic themes or threads.
All of which is to say: know your book. Know what you’re writing, your target market, your potential audience, and your potential publishers. And then you’ll know if you need to slant your story in any particular way, whether with POV choices or with changes to some other element.
* * *
RU Crew, have you ever scratched your head over submission guidelines? Feel free to pick Theresa’s brain today!
Be sure to stop by Monday when the one-of-a-kind Anne Stuart will join us!
Theresa’s Bio:
Theresa Stevens is the Publisher of STAR Guides Publishing, a nonfiction publishing company with the mission to help writers write better books. After earning degrees in creative writing and law, she worked as a literary attorney agent for a boutique firm in Indianapolis where she represented a range of fiction and nonfiction authors. After a nine-year hiatus from the publishing industry to practice law, Theresa worked as chief executive editor for a highly acclaimed small romance press, and her articles on writing and editing have appeared in numerous publications for writers. Visit her blog at http://edittorrent.blogspot.com/ where she and her co-blogger share their knowledge and hardly ever argue about punctuation.
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Hi Theresa,
Thanks for the clarification! For my historicals, I try to do 50/50.
Pauline, thanks for the question!
Tracey
Posted by TraceyDevlyn | February 25, 2011, 5:32 amTracey, your 50/50 mix works well, too, because both hero and heroine have such strong arcs. I love that about your books.
T
Posted by Theresa S. | February 25, 2011, 9:59 amHi Theresa. I usually wind up with one of my characters having a few more POV scenes. Sometimes it’s way more than a few and I go back and see if I can switch any of them to balance it.
I do keep track of which scenes are in which POV by using a spreadsheet so it makes it easier to figure out what could possibly be changed.
Thanks for another great post.
Posted by Adrienne Giordano | February 25, 2011, 6:32 amAdrienne, I’m a big fan of scene charts, too. They make it all feel so much neater somehow. Editing a rough draft is a big job, but breaking it out into steps — such as evaluating pov as a separate chart component — makes it feel more manageable.
T
Posted by Theresa S. | February 25, 2011, 10:01 amMorning Theresa!
Another great post – thank you! =) I love writing in first person POV, but switched to third after several contests. A lot of people don’t like first person at all! Lesson learned. =)
Thanks for deciphering the submission guidelines – I never would have caught that!
carrie
Posted by Carrie Spencer | February 25, 2011, 8:13 amYes, first person can draw strong responses. At my old house, we weren’t allowed to acquire any first person stories for the simple reason that the publisher didn’t like them. But then there are readers who love that feeling of intimacy with the character, so it really comes down to taste.
T
Posted by Theresa S. | February 25, 2011, 10:02 amFirst person is common in mystery and even in chick lit, but Lisa Kleypas is the only author of contemporary romance I can think of who pulled it off in that genre.
Posted by Becke Martin/Davis | February 25, 2011, 3:01 pmHi Theresa,
My book is first person and got published. The one I’m working on now started out as third person, but is now first person. I think my heroines are pushy, but don’t tell them I said it.
Mary Jo Burke
Posted by Mary Jo Burke | February 25, 2011, 8:52 amI am so going to tell them you said that! LOL.
Posted by AdrienneGiordano | February 25, 2011, 10:00 amLove those pushy heroines!
Posted by Becke Martin/Davis | February 25, 2011, 3:02 pmI’m totally telling.
I love a well-told tale in first person, and they can be hard to find. Got a link for your book?
T
Posted by Theresa S. | February 25, 2011, 10:04 amHi Theresa,
I knew I shouldn’t trust you or Adrienne to keep a secret.
Here is the book link:
http://www.thewildrosepress.com/all-hours-trading-p-3960.html?zenid=4de97da33b98ab07de24cf9540cd3905
Thanks for asking.
Mary Jo
Posted by Mary Jo Burke | February 25, 2011, 10:24 amOh, I love a pushy heroine, Mary Jo! Definitely going to have to check out yours!
K-
Posted by Kelsey Browning | February 25, 2011, 10:50 amHi Theresa,
Thank you so much for answering my question. I read Megan Hart’s Precious and Fragile Things and was enthralled by her deep POV. I am now keeping track of POV scenes and find that I enjoy giving the hero a heavy hand in the books I write. I like to read from the hero’s POV so I find I naturally write that way. That’s great advice to study the guidelines for the hidden jems of information. This blog site is a great asset for my writing and I appreciate the time all of you take to help new and aspiring authors. Great insight, Theresa. Thanks again.
Pauline
Posted by Pauline Allan | February 25, 2011, 9:14 amMegan Hart is a fantastic writer. You could do a lot worse than studying her texts.
Thanks for the great question!
T
Posted by Theresa S. | February 25, 2011, 10:05 amHi Theresa,
Great advice and clarification. I’m like Adrienne–I keep a scene spreadsheet that includes POV information. I write mainstream suspense so there is no set recipe for which POV character gets a certain percentage of scenes. Even so, I try to keep POV changes to a minimum. Two seems to work well for me!
Have a great weekend!
Tracy
Posted by Tracy March | February 25, 2011, 9:33 amHi, Tracy,
Two is usually the right number for a romance. There are exceptions, of course! But for most of the romances published, two works just fine. Do you do scenes from your villain’s pov? That’s a big decision for so many suspense writers.
T
Posted by Theresa S. | February 25, 2011, 10:07 amTheresa -
As always, I learn something new from you in every column! From what I can determine, most Urban Fantasy is in first person POV, from the heroine’s perspective. Do you have any thoughts on why that genre has evolved that way?
I’m a third person POV gal because I SO want those scenes from the hero’s POV. And I’d cry if I never got to read Adrienne’s hero’s internal thoughts
!
Kels
Posted by Kelsey Browning | February 25, 2011, 10:49 amLOL. That won’t happen any time soon. I’ve pretty much convinced myself I think better as a man.
Posted by AdrienneGiordano | February 25, 2011, 12:14 pmNot sure what that says about you, A!
Posted by KelseyBrowning | February 25, 2011, 2:39 pmThat’s a good question. My sense with UF is that even with a romance arc, it’s still usually more about the external plot than the romance plot. It’s usually very action/adventure oriented. Intuitively, we almost would expect this to be a pattern for third person povs, right?
So why would it work better in first? Well, what do we gain as authors by using first? We get a tightly controlled lens through which the story is viewed. It’s easier to screen out certain kinds of plot information in first person — which is why so many detective stories are written in first. You can control the clues by controlling the viewpoint through which the story is experiences.
So let me throw it back on you, Kels. (Yes, here I go again, asking you questions. lol) Why would that kind of control work so well in that storytelling environment?
T
Posted by Theresa S. | February 25, 2011, 2:32 pmTheresa -
I’m going to have to give this one some thought. Do you ask Adrienne and Tracey questions like this and I just miss it? LOL
K-
Posted by KelseyBrowning | February 25, 2011, 3:14 pmYes. IT’S WHAT I DO. *ggg*
Posted by Theresa S. | February 25, 2011, 5:11 pmHi Theresa – Thanks for another very helpful and informative blog!
Submitting is scary, and it makes sense to go into it armed with as much information as possible, the same way we’d prepare ourselves for a job interview. In a way, that’s what we’re all doing when we submit.
A lot of agents bemoan the number of submissions they get for genres they don’t represent. I’m sure it’s the same for editors. When we first start submitting, I think there’s a temptation to throw it out there to as many editors/agents as possible in hopes of striking it lucky. That way lies madness – and a whole lot of rejections that could probably have been avoided.
Entering contests isn’t the same as submitting, but I think it can be good training when it comes to submission guidelines. It goes beyond the technical guidelines – every contest is looking for something a little different. It doesn’t take a lot of research to figure out what they’re looking for. In the case of publishers it’s even easier – just read the books they publish.
I’m interested that you chose POV as the focus of your blog, Theresa. I’ve been reading mysteries and romance for more years than I like to count. I drifted away from romance for several years back in the 1990s, and what brought me back was the shift to stories including a male POV.
I LOVE the male POV – even though I find it intriguing that my favorite fictional men were were born in a female brain. In most of my favorite books the hero owns the story, even if the heroine is technically the protagonist. It’s almost always the hero that sticks in my mind when I’ve finished reading a great book. Go figure!
Posted by Becke Martin/Davis | February 25, 2011, 11:02 amThat actually makes sense, Becke, because we read romance to experience falling in love with the hero. We enjoy other aspects of the story, too, but if we can’t love the hero, it’s not much of a romance.
And honestly, if people would follow the guidelines carefully, slush piles would be instantly trimmed by a fifth, at least.
T
Posted by Theresa S. | February 25, 2011, 2:35 pmThe very first book I wrote was in first person POV. I soon changed it over to third person POV and promptly shelved it. It’s hidden with the dust motes.
I’m a little gun-shy when buying first person POV books because sometimes I don’t like the heroine. For instance, as I said before, I love Megan Hart. Naked was written in first person and I wasn’t thrilled with her personality so I stopped reading half-way through. I agree with Becke that I enjoy reading a strong hero and what he’s thinking about the sexy lady he’s smitten with. So, am I understanding right that romance genre prefers only two character’s POV’s in a novel?
Posted by Pauline Allan | February 25, 2011, 11:20 amThis is a great question. Suzanne Brockmann almost always has multiple POV’s in her books, but what is interesting (and I haven’t done official research on this) is I think she’ll have the POV from the main two characters and then the secondary characters will get their own POV. She weaves two stories into that one book. I always love her books.
Posted by AdrienneGiordano | February 25, 2011, 12:25 pmI’ve been hooked on Suzanne Brockmann’s books for more than a decade. I love the way she writes the male POV. Her characters are so real I sometimes have to walk away from the book for a few minutes because the suspense is so intense, and the danger is so believable.
BTW – (hope it’s okay to give a plug) Suzanne is going to be hanging out with us at Barnes & Noble’s Mystery forum (BN.com) on Monday evening. Come join the fun – the more, the merrier!
Posted by Becke Martin/Davis | February 25, 2011, 12:30 pmPauline, I’ve read several romantic suspense books that have a 3rd POV–the villain’s.
Posted by Tracey Devlyn | February 25, 2011, 2:29 pmThat’s a good point, Tracey. I’ve almost come to expect scene’s in the villain’s POV.
Posted by Becke Martin/Davis | February 25, 2011, 3:04 pmI’m not sure I’d classify Megan Hart as romance, though. And yes, most romance books will have two POVs. There are exceptions, but most will have two.
Posted by Theresa S. | February 25, 2011, 2:37 pmI often struggle with whether a story should be first or third person. I hate to admit it but more than one story I’ve written was started in one and I later converted it to the other. I write women’s fiction and I like the intimate feel of first person. However, it can at some times be limiting.
Posted by Roxanne | February 25, 2011, 7:16 pmHi, Roxanne,
Lots of writers do early “discovery” drafts in first person as a way of learning their characters interior experiences. Those early drafts are not meant for publication but are a development tool. Yours might be, too. In any case, don’t worry about changing things between drafts. You’ll never know if another approach is better unless you try writing it!
T
Posted by Theresa S. | February 26, 2011, 10:25 amHi Theresa!
I’m too chicken to write in first person POV. However, when I’m reading a book written in first person POV, the writer’s voice has to captivate me from the get go cause I’m in for the long haul.
As always, thank you for the wonderful advice.
Have a great weekend everyone!
Posted by Jennifer Tanner | February 25, 2011, 7:25 pmHi, Jennifer,
First person does has its pitfalls, but so does every other pov choice! The trick is finding what works best for you and your story. If first person doesn’t feel right — that is, if you don’t think it meshes well with your native style — then don’t worry about it! Just write in third, which is a great choice for most books.
Lots of readers experience first person as somewhat claustrophobic. The psychology behind this has to do with how comfortable we are with ego suspension and how the new ego’s characteristics blend with our own personalities. Most of us would find it very hard to read a first person account of a serial killer ritually torturing a victim, for example, because we’d have a hard time substituting his “I” viewpoint for our own.
And then there are the idiosyncratic things — I tried to read a first person narrative that took some cheap shots at knitting, a hobby of mine, and it broke my bond to that character so completely that I had to stop reading. Others wouldn’t object to that, of course, and there’s little an author can do about idiosyncratic responses except try to be aware of what things might trigger them. Negativity toward any group is one of those triggers.
Anyway. Ramble. Thanks for your comment!
T
Posted by Theresa S. | February 26, 2011, 10:32 amI agree. I’m a very curvy gal. If the first person POV character is a size 5 and describes herself or someone else’s dialogue (the hero’s) describes her as so sexy because of her tiny waist I get turned off of the story. It’s just a quirk of mine, but it makes me put the book down. If I can’t relate to the only POV in the book it’s a no go for me. That’s the danger of first person I guess.
Posted by Pauline Allan | February 26, 2011, 1:28 pm